Uncovered: Life Beyond
Join the conversations of Rebecca and Naomi, two ex-Amish Mennonite women who jumped the proverbial fence in their younger years and later experienced college as first-gen, non-traditional students. They discuss pursuing formal education while raising a family, navigating the hidden curriculum of academia, and other dimensions of reimagining a life beyond high-demand religion. Send your questions to uncoveredlifebeyond@gmail.com.
Uncovered: Life Beyond
57. Celebrating Five Generations of Stories, Silences, and Surprises at the 2025 D.D. Miller Family Reunion
This episode recaps a family reunion we recently attended, tracing five generations back to our great-great-grandfather Daniel D. Miller, discovering unexpected connections and untold stories that shape how we see ourselves today.
• Rebecca and Naomi join with Margaret (Naomi's sister) to discuss their experiences at a gathering of the descendants of Daniel D. and Mary Miller's ten sons.
• The recurring theme of strong, unsubmissive women in our family history raises more questions than answers as we wonder about their lived experiences and influence on their descendants.
• Were the frequent sawmill accidents unique to our family line or do they simply remind us of the harsh realities of farm life and child labor in the past?
• What value do extended family reunions hold for younger generations? How can we access a sense of belonging regardless of the life choices or current identity of individuals?
• What qualities (such as hospitality, pacifism, or a quirky sense of humor) do we want to consciously preserve and pass down to future generations?
If you're part of the DD Miller line, save the date for our next reunion in Sarasota in two years. Join our Facebook group for updates and connections!
Links We Mentioned (or should have)
Attendees representing Daniel D.'s Valentine's Irene: https://www.facebook.com/share/18zkW5aVts/
The cousin party: https://www.facebook.com/share/18vrrirHpj/
Daniel D. Miller Family (private Facebook group): https://www.facebook.com/groups/1791987254171830
Geauga Amish History Center (Geauga County, Ohio): https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61553567564967
Amish and Mennonite Heritage Center (Holmes County, Ohio): https://behalt.com/
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This is Rebecca and this is Naomi. We're 40-something moms and first cousins who know what it's like to veer off the path assigned to us.
Speaker 2:We've juggled motherhood, marriage, college and career, as we questioned our faith traditions while exploring new identities and ways of seeing the world.
Speaker 1:Without any maps for either of us to follow. We've had to figure things out as we go and appreciate that detours and dead ends are essential to the path Along the way, we've uncovered a few insights we want to share with fellow travelers.
Speaker 2:We want to talk about the questions we didn't know who to ask and the options we didn't know we had.
Speaker 1:So whether you're feeling stuck or already shaking things up, we are here to cheer you on and assure you that the best is yet to come. Welcome to Uncovered Life Beyond. Hello everyone, welcome back to Uncovered Life Beyond. This is Naomi and this is Rebecca, so this week we're doing something a little different. This weekend I'm here at Rebecca's house in Ohio. We just got back from a multi-day family reunion here in Holmes County and yeah, it was the kind with name tags, folding chairs, bad acoustics and relatives we've never met before.
Speaker 2:And some relatives that we had met before that we didn't know were relatives.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and to be honest, it was the relatives I already knew that got me there. That's fair. So between the Lebanon bologna, the macaroni salad strawberry fluff.
Speaker 2:I think we should have a moment of silence for the strawberry fluff. It was pretty awesome. It was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1:Descendants from the 10 sons of Daniel D Miller shared memories from our various family lines. We learned a lot about our history, but the reunion also left us with even more questions and answers, and today we are joined by my sister, margaret, to talk about what we heard, what we felt and what it means to carry family memory, especially when we're also trying to grow beyond it Right, and thank you so much, margaret, for being with us today.
Speaker 2:Margaret also helped organize the reunion, which I know is like herding cats sometimes, so thank you for that. But yes, sometimes family stories are more than just sentimental. They're maps. They show us where we come from, they help us spot the traps we didn't want to fall into and sometimes they give us a kind of healing we didn't even know we needed or we're looking for was your first impression when you arrived?
Speaker 1:This is since this reunion was pretty far reaching and there wasn't necessarily lots of people that we'd met before. What was your experience? Getting involved and then kicking it off?
Speaker 3:Yes, working with the people that I had been in contact with and had never met before, it was interesting to think about meeting them. And when I first got there I walked in, I see these people who, most of them, I did not know, some of them I just knew because my parents knew them. But I met these relatives, distant relatives that I'd never met before, and it was amazing how we made those. Those conversations just started. They knew my great grandparents, they had been with my dad in his childhood and so those stories started coming out, those connections, and it was just a really great feeling because you're connecting with people that know some of your history and, in some cases, know more than I did.
Speaker 2:That would be really kind of cool. So this reunion was far-reaching. And do you want to tell us a little bit more about that, Margaret reaching? And do you want to tell us a little bit more about that, Margaret? So it went five generations back, but we actually have history even further back than that, correct?
Speaker 3:Yes. So to start with, the first ancestor in this family line that lived in America came over in 1763 and was married, had children, and then he was pressed to join in the Revolutionary War and while he was gone his wife became ill and she asked for their five children to be placed in Amish homes. So when this father his name was Samuel Miller when he returned from the war he was devastated to find that his wife had died and he eventually remarried and disappeared and his children never knew where he was and they were all raised in the Amish faith and became staunch members and raised their families that way, and so the generations came on down and to where this reunion was set up. Our great, great grandfather, daniel D Miller, had 10 sons.
Speaker 2:Samuel Miller would have been 11 generations back, nine generations back from us, okay. And then, four generations later, came Daniel D Miller, whom this was a gathering of people below him.
Speaker 1:What time period did DD Miller, daniel D Miller, live in? And51, and he lived till 1947.
Speaker 3:And his wife Mary. She was born in 1849, and she lived to 1924. So Daniel lived quite a number of years after his wife did so late 1800s up to early mid-1900s up to early mid-1900s.
Speaker 1:So for a frame of reference, I like to think of the little house books and, if I remember correctly, many of these sons were born in the 1880s and if I remember correctly, the Ingalls family was out there on the Dakota territories in the 1880s, surviving the long winter and all that. So this was the time frame of this family's, or this particular generation's births. So of the 10 sons, eight were represented at the reunion. Sons eight were represented at the reunion. Our ancestor in this family was Valentine and we knew him as Feldy Pop and he passed away before I was born, before you were born, rebecca. But, margaret, you actually did get to meet him, although I'm not sure if you remember it.
Speaker 3:No, I certainly don't remember it. I was 16 months old when he died, at age 94. And at the time he was living with our grandmother, irene and her family, and he fell and broke his hip and passed away three days later. But my mother happened to be the person who was staying with grandma and watching over him and when he passed away, and so I was 16 months old and the rest of the family was at church that evening right, that's correct. The rest of the family had gone to church for revival meetings or something. So you know, I know they didn't have a telephone and so when they came home from church, you know, they found out that. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, they didn't have a telephone you know, they found out that, yeah, yeah, well they didn't have a telephone.
Speaker 1:They didn't have a cell phone at the church. Oh, oh, oh, because they were at old buffalo crossroads, at that old presbyterian church. I think that would that they were renting at the time.
Speaker 2:You're right, wow, rabbit trail so I think you should introduce yourself the way people were introduced at the reunion.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay. Well, I come from this family line of Daniel D Miller. Ich bin der Daniel D, der Valentine, der Irene, der Leroy der Margaret.
Speaker 2:I think, that's amazing, it uh? Leroy say Margaret.
Speaker 3:I think that's amazing.
Speaker 2:I think that's just a little bit awkward, but you get the point. Well, you know, the cool thing is like it is a little awkward, but still not everyone knows that about their past and I think that's kind of cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like our version of the begats in the Old Testament. So the center point of this reunion was hearing from each, or hearing from a representative of each of the 10 sons, and they shared, you know, family history and memories such as they had you know or that had been passed down to them. So we won't put our listeners to sleep by giving them a rundown of each of the eight speakers, but it might be fun to talk about some of the stories that are going to stick with us, to talk about some of the stories that are going to stick with us, the stories that we heard, that, you know, made us go oh, I, I. That tracks. That makes sense. You know, the stories that made us proud, the stories that, well, some of them made us wince or cringe, but but certainly memorable. So what are some things that stand out to either of you?
Speaker 3:I was so impressed by the fact that one of the first speakers mentioned that there's not a lot that we know about our great grandmothers and yet, from what we do know, they were strong women. So that was interesting to me and I think it must have shaped their families and I'd love to know more about them personally and why they were the way they were.
Speaker 2:You know what? I think that was an amazing point and I thought it was really fascinating. There was a younger Amish guy who spoke about it as well then, because they kind of opened it up actually with this point. Who spoke about it as well then, because they kind of opened it up actually with this point, and then later on this younger Amish guy I'm guessing he was 40-ish and he also was talking about his grandmother and he made the point of saying and she wasn't submissive and it was as a compliment. I mean he was complimenting her leadership and her ability to navigate the world and take people with her and it really made me curious about, first of all, the way we view submission and when that became a big deal. And he seemed so proud of the fact that that was not a way to describe his grandmother and I just was really impressed by that.
Speaker 1:Right Well, and I think we've had similar conversations about our own grandmother. I mean, she had her own way about her. But I suspect that the influence of evangelicalism, influence of evangelicalism, fundamentalism in the mid-20th century took some of those cultural norms and just cranked them up a bit and added the weight of spirituality and a moral and even deeper moral weight than what would have already been there in the culture.
Speaker 2:True, and you mentioned too that our grandmother had her own. She had her own Exactly, and she walked to her own beat, but she would turn over in her grave if we would suggest she wasn't submissive. Yes, that's true, which is fascinating.
Speaker 1:One of the moments that stood out to me. It wasn't huge in significance, this is more in conversation, but our dad was there and he was having a conversation with a friend from fourth grade, someone he hadn't seen since fourth grade, and they were chatting and it was really sweet to see how they remembered each other and it made me wonder what else was going on. But one of the things she said well, they were saying these nice things to each other you know about. Oh, I remember this about you. I remember that about you, and I said that it reminded me of the saying that we don't remember what others say. We remember how they made us feel something like that and that really seemed to characterize their memories.
Speaker 1:But what she was saying was that she felt badly. She's felt badly ever since fourth grade because she had tattled on him at some point and he had to stay in for recess or something. He got punished for it and she has felt bad about having done that ever since. Do y'all remember what it was that he said? Because then we were wondering, like what did he do? What did she tattle?
Speaker 3:on him, for he called her by her name Hossa Filla.
Speaker 1:That's a pants filler for anyone who's not conversant in Pennsylvania Dutch.
Speaker 2:You know what else is weird about these family gatherings that I wasn't expecting is, all of a sudden, you enter the room as an adult People that you previously might have experienced as a kid and we were the younger people there. We were absolutely the younger people in the room and people who absolutely were an influential part of your childhood, good or bad. You were now yeah, yeah, there were some people there as an authority figure. You were now on a level playing field and it was fascinating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you could feel a shift, or there was a shift, or maybe that was just in our heads, but anyway, it was different.
Speaker 2:It was different and I think it would be really interesting. Well, first of all, it made me aware of of you know, at some point I'll probably be the old person in the room at a family gathering too and how that is going Like. That's kind of the circle of life, and how does that feel?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so wonder if anyone had any moments that maybe reinforced what they already knew about our family or, you know, had some hunch about our family. We've already talked about the, the unsubmissive women, that trait but what about anything else that resonated or maybe helped explain a long standing family dynamic?
Speaker 2:I thought the story of the missing fingers and how much that seemed to be a trait of our family was kind of fascinating. The story was that my great-grandfather was bragging to my father about how close he could get to a table saw without yeah, to the saw blade, without cutting his fingers and in the process whacked off too. And as I was hearing the story, I leaned over to my husband and I'm like there you have it. Did we have uncles that lost as well, or was that? And I have a brother who lost a finger too.
Speaker 1:But that was a thing that came through and I don't know if this is reflective of a time period or reflective of a family, but there were quite a few stories of people who had lost limbs or digits because of working in the sawmill industry. And so I mean I don't know, I don't know if it's unique to the family or if it's just common for the time period, but I think also Feldy Pop, our great-grandfather, he not only lost those two fingers but he lost other fingers as well. Right, I don't remember those details.
Speaker 2:Why do I think that they said he died with two fingers on one hand and three on the other?
Speaker 3:I don't know what all the incidents that happened, but I do know some years after he lost those fingers in a saw he was trying to clean up oats going into an auger and got another digit hung up and it was. It was pretty bad. He wanted his wife or his daughter to bring the pruning hook so he could cut it off and they refused and they insisted he goes to see the doctor but eventually it turned black and he got his whip had to be taken off, but not by the pruning hook Right, who knows.
Speaker 2:Maybe he thought that they just kind of grow back in. Who knows can, who knows? The other thing that I think about is kids really did work hard at a younger age. I mean, that was the case with my brother. He was working with equipment that was way too big for him, from my memory. That's what, and I think when we I think it's easy for us to forget that farm accidents are a real thing and they can really be dangerous and child labor laws are important.
Speaker 3:And also in that time period when those pieces of equipment were being made, they probably did not have much in the way of guard blade guards. Safety procedures were not a big deal, and I find it fascinating that the word is that all 10 of those sons were pretty easygoing guys. So I don't know how that plays in necessarily with losing fingers, but they seemed pretty chill.
Speaker 1:And adventurous. Well, and also adventurous, I mean, maybe they they weren't risk averse.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:I mean, or it seems they were willing to take risks, but they also yeah, they, they also had a um seem to have a reputation for being well-liked, for getting along well with people, for having a sense of humor, having the ability to communicate well, and I think that's an interesting trait, because that's not always present in these kinds of situations that you're talking about. Also, speaking of children, while 10 of the children did survive to adulthood, we also learned about a set of twins that were born at some point who did not survive, and it was because of the cold that the cabin they were in, from what we understand, was built out of green wood, and so the wood shrank and that left all these cracks in the wall. And then there was winter, and we're not sure was that. Some were saying that cabin was located in Somerset, pennsylvania, but then also the family was in Ohio, and so I know people moved, we know people moved around, but wherever it was, the twins didn't survive, which is really unfortunate.
Speaker 2:And some books would suggest that it actually happened in Farmerstown, Ohio, and I drive past or through Farmerstown on my way to work, so it's kind of strange to think that five generations ago they were here. Like it's weird, Like yeah.
Speaker 1:Your ancestors were here struggling for survival. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Your ancestors were here struggling for survival. I like that, or I think it's really cool that you live in an area where you have ancestors for generations back. Sometimes we think we have to go to Europe where they came from, and while I love that feeling of walking down a street over there and thinking our ancestors were here, we have that here too Nine generations. That's kind of cool.
Speaker 1:So what were some of the questions that came up as we were listening to the stories, and what were the things that we wanted to that we wish we could know more about?
Speaker 3:When they were talking about Mary, our great great-grandmother yes, great-great. The question I have is what did she do to raise those 10 sons, to appreciate her leadership and it seems to have been passed down through the generations because we hear about other strong women who were great leaders and were admired. Those 10 sons obviously had to do things that if they'd have had a bunch of sisters, they would not have been doing, and I like to think that that shaped the way that they perceived women and their daughters. But that's a question I would love to ask, mary what did you tell your sons? How did you communicate with them? What was your experience? Because those are the kinds of things that I like to ask grandmothers.
Speaker 2:Right, and there were also stories of her sons having a sense of humor and a sense of awareness which in the early 1900s would be like. I mean, we think of us being progressive today and aware and learning all these things and it's like, well, maybe they knew what was going on back then too.
Speaker 1:They were self-reflective and seemed to have the ability to attune and communicate and be emotionally intelligent. Yeah, were there any stories that felt sanitized or overly nostalgic? Yeah, I'll be honest, I didn't hear as many as I thought I might.
Speaker 2:The one I thought about, and this wasn't directly in our line, but in the family of eight sons there was one who ended up leaving the Amish church, and he had a descendant that was there, and she was amazing, she was sweet, she was adorable, and it was interesting, though, because she kept talking about how he left the community and I I was reminded, and she talked about how much of it was a honor and a privilege to be able to connect with family that she didn't know about, and in that story she said she had known, before becoming kind of connected with the reunion, the folks organizing the reunion in the last few years.
Speaker 1:she knew she had Amish relatives and she would joke about it as she drove around Ohio like, oh there's my Amish cousins, and not really expecting to ever actually meet some of her Amish cousins, which now she has.
Speaker 2:In that I was just curious, like what's the story that's not being told? And when is it appropriate to start talking about maybe the damaging effects that happen in shunning or in disowning and what that does to future generations? And did that happen? Right right, was that the case? You would, I would assume, if they kind of lost touch as a family perhaps, but but maybe not necessarily. So yeah, I don't know. I was just really curious about that, like I was like what part of the store is not being told there?
Speaker 1:No, I agree. And then this afternoon after the reunion, our mom and dad came over here. Rebecca invited our mom and dad over and we were hanging out and going through a bin of old letters from grandma, which was really cool. But it was an opportunity to ask my dad about our aunt Lydia who left, and I think we've mentioned her before on the podcast. And I think we've mentioned her before on the podcast, but I was curious about that because she had left the Amish tradition and we knew her as Holiness Pentecostal, how she managed, how she seemed so accepted by the family even though she had left the tradition.
Speaker 3:So dad explained that she had left the tradition with her husband and he said it was just never a thing right. Well, actually, from what I understand, it wasn't unusual. At that point. There were a number of people who left the Amish Mennonite tradition and joined some kind of a Pentecostal church. It was a season when a lot of that was happening, so it wasn't like they were the only ones doing that some kind of a Pentecostal church. It was a season when a lot of that was happening, so it wasn't like they were the only ones doing that. So I don't know if you would call it a time of spiritual renewal I don't know if that's the correct term for it, but there was. I think it was the time maybe when people were just making a lot of changes, and so it wasn't unusual for her to be doing that. She wasn't the only one.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, that makes sense. That makes sense, although I just can't help but notice the difference between the way that dad described the reaction to her leaving and the way I think that kind of thing would go down today. Anyway, that's just kind of. It was just interesting to get that clarification from him, since I was just working from my perception of things as a child.
Speaker 2:So this great aunt that we're talking about. Her name was Lydia and she Aunt Lydia.
Speaker 1:Not Lydia.
Speaker 2:I mean, maybe that's what it said on her birth certificate, but she was Aunt Lydia, Not Lydia I mean, maybe that's what it said on her birth certificate, but she was Aunt Lydia and so she would have been Beldy Pop's daughter and wrote many letters back and forth to our grandma Irene, and I have some of those letters and we were reading through them today.
Speaker 2:And, um, lydia was talking about being at an amish funeral and she was talking about how her and lizzie is that another sister, a friend, were there and they were the only ones who were in amish, except for one other person, I guess, because she was criticizing the length of that skirt that she had on, but yet she was. Was also kind of pointing out how some of the other people there look like nuns, and I just kind of had to chuckle because we just don't stop doing that, do we? I mean, like we've all heard that, we've all done that, we've all been part of that game, and I just had to laugh at how human nature is just human nature. It doesn't matter if it's in the early 1900s, it doesn't matter if it is in the 60s or 2025.
Speaker 1:Here we are, yeah, evaluating or critiquing or making observations about people based on appearances. So we're talking about our different impressions and the way that stories, that parts of stories, are lost or can be forgotten, and I think those gaps are. I think we go, we participate in reunions and this kind of thing in a search for the puzzle pieces to fill in those gaps, to fill in those questions. Were there any other gaps that either of you noticed, of things that weren't said, or silences, things that were missed?
Speaker 3:One of the things that I noticed. I've seen it in accounts of family history and we alluded to the fact that it was mentioned at the reunion too. We have great ancestors, but the women, the women's stories are really quiet and I find that sad and I also have found myself really passionate about seeking out those stories. I want to know what, even if it's tiny little pieces of the puzzle. I want to know what parts people do know and put them together, because those mothers, they shaped the future every bit as much as those fathers did, the future every bit as much as those fathers did. And it's one thing to mention it and say, yeah, the women weren't very well. You know, we don't talk very much about what they did, and then even in the family history books when it's mentioned, then there's another it's mentioned. Oh, you know, we don't give the mothers enough credit and then it's all about the dad. So that's one of my passions is to find those pieces.
Speaker 2:So what are you going to do to fix it? You have a passion. What are you going to do to fix it?
Speaker 3:I would love to do all the interviews I can and I would love to put it in book form.
Speaker 2:I think you should do it. I think that would be great.
Speaker 1:So a heads up to our listeners. We're teasing a project that we hope to tell you more about after a while.
Speaker 2:And I think it's so important because so I have three kids. None of my kids have the same mother and by getting these stories, it represents so many different pieces of who even just one person is and how different people experience different people.
Speaker 3:And even among ourselves. You know we've talked about our impressions of our grandmother. We all have as many different experiences as there are, you know, different individuals of us. So putting all those pieces together just gives us a very well-rounded picture of a person and who they are.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think it's also fascinating to kind of dive into perhaps why different people have different experiences and the events and the situations that maybe shape some of those types of things. My grandma, irene would have bought me my first pair of little black Mary Jane shoes. I was so proud of those shoes. I spent most of my life barefoot and then when I did actually have shoes, I had like one pair of tennis shoes for I was probably seven or eight and she bought me this pair of black Mary Janes. It wasn't until you guys pointed out years later and you're absolutely right she had a bunch of used shoes that were given to her that she would have typically just turned around and gave to someone and made them wear it, whether it was a size too big or too small, but yet she bought me a new pair, like what the heck?
Speaker 1:Hang on. You got a new pair of shoes from grandma.
Speaker 2:She took me into the Lewisburg Kmart and I maybe stood in front of the shoe rack too long just gazing at them Like I might have done something like that. It was Murphy.
Speaker 3:Mart.
Speaker 2:Oh, it was Murphy Mart. You're right, it was Murphy Mart.
Speaker 1:Murphy Mart was down in Sealands Grove.
Speaker 2:You're right, You're right. It was Murphy Mart. I just remember standing there and just gazing at those shoes and she's like why don't we get you a pair?
Speaker 1:Are we talking about the same grandmother? Because I also remember wearing a dress with a zipper in it and at the time zippers were kind of the innovative thing in our little bubble and I guess traditionally it would have been buttons. And which is such a complicated history with buttons? Buttons on the back of little girls' dresses were okay On the front of adult dresses, bad On the front of men's shirts. Totally fine. There's just no logic to it. Anyway, that's beside the point. The point is I have a very clear memory of wearing a dress with a zipper down the back. It was one of the first times.
Speaker 1:And walking in the walk and the rocks were, it was kind of the rough times. And walking in the walk and the rocks were, it was kind of the rough walk. There was some broken concrete and falling and skinning my knee and hearing grandma say it was because of the zipper in the dress that you fell down. And you know and I say that with absolutely no resentment or knowing her in the context of who she was it makes sense to me she had many sides. She's a complicated character and was very loving and many, many warm memories of her. But it's just to say that her buying a child a pair of shoes just because the kid wanted them was not something she was doing every day of the week, and I think you had a special status that, yeah, the rest of us didn't know about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have been really curious about that Because for many years I thought about it. I love the memory and all that, but I never thought about how unusual it was. But you're very right, For many years there, the devil was in the zipper. The devil's not the detail, the devil is in the zipper. That was a real thing and I also think it's funny. I mean I knew it, but after reading these letters from her sister, her sister really saw the devil behind every bush and she was all into the end times and I mean this was, this was, and so I wonder how much that influenced her too.
Speaker 1:Right, right, yeah, her sister would send her a bunch of tracts and they were in this box and I scanned some of the ones with provocative titles and one of my favorites was the most dangerous dope of our time, or something like that.
Speaker 2:And guys, there's tracks in there from Ken Ham. How old is Ken Ham? Like Ken Ham, I cannot believe I have his literature in my house.
Speaker 3:That must have been early 90s.
Speaker 1:I think so I think the most. There were maybe a few postcards from 96. I think that was, but there were also letters dating back to the 70s, so yeah, and even a tiny little notebook dating back to the 30s.
Speaker 3:That's right, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I started scanning a bunch of those things and it's the ephemera of daily life that at the time most probably didn't think significant. Most of us wouldn't. We don't keep our to do lists usually and yet it's. It's so interesting to go back. For example, there was a scratch pad and I was looking through the scratch pad and came along a list of names with the numbers next to them and figured out that it was her Sunday dinner plans and it was her guest list for a Sunday dinner, probably in about 1975. And so my mom and I were going through and trying to work out who those individuals, who those families, would have been. Even though I wouldn't have been born at that time yet, it brought back memories of that big dining room and the big farmhouse.
Speaker 3:And 30 guests around her Sunday dinner table. No problem, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So were there any particular parts of family story or patterns that we want to honor and preserve, or patterns that we want to honor and preserve, even if our daily lives look very different from the ancestors of the stories we were hearing about? What are some of the themes that struck either of you as traits worth preserving?
Speaker 3:Well, this is just going back to Grandma Irene worth preserving. Well, this is just going back to Grandma Irene. Hospitality was just completely normal for her. You know she had people over for meals. She welcomed people into her home. I have so many memories of old neighbor ladies sitting in the hickory rocker beside her big wood stove in the big kitchen. They just came and sat there. She might go on working, she might be in and out of the house doing her things and those little old ladies were just sitting there rocking. And there's something about having that kind of a welcoming presence. There must have been something about her, something about her energy that just attracted these little old ladies who just needed to be in a safe space. And she had this big bustling farmhouse. It was a farm, there were people in and out, she had grandchildren in and out and it was a welcoming space.
Speaker 2:You know, that's kind of where my mind was going to, and I think it was particularly unusual because it seemed like during that time the churches I was a part of, and even that she was a part of, tend to kind of close themselves off from the outside world, like pretty isolated, and yet somehow she managed to have a huge connection to the outside world and was some of that from her working. Like didn't she go to the Lewisburg Farm Market every week and didn't she have a stand there for a lot of yes, everyone's nodding their heads, and this was like a thing she did religiously. I remember her buying me fireballs. Wow, you didn't get fireballs, we maybe did.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yes, I do remember fireballs. They were like five cents. Yes, yes, yes, I do remember those. Yeah, yes, well, you know, when she was growing up in Virginia Beach, from the time she was 13 to 21, she went to market for her parents. She missed two weeks in that time period, and so I think it was perfectly normal that when she moved to Lewisburg she went to farmer's market too. And think of all the connections she made. She got to know a lot of people that way. She was just a friendly person.
Speaker 2:She was friendly and spicy. She was person. She was friendly and spicy she was. And for the record, if anyone cares, when she was the young teen at the farmer's market and this would have been in the early 30s, right she sold a dozen of eggs for 35 cents. Just so you know. I thought that was kind of important. That's what I learned from my little box of letters and receipts. But yeah, I agree, and I think the thing that's also fascinating is Feldy Pop was fairly well to do and Irene was a little Southern belle who actually married down. So our grandpa would have been from a more poor family. So she, her, my, our grandpa would have been from a poor, more poor family, and I've often thought about that dynamic.
Speaker 2:She wasn't necessarily spoiled in the sense of she didn't like go buy stuff. She was a cheapskate and she saved everything, but yet she was very brand conscious. Like you had nothing but Bechtel's ice cream. Like you would never buy cheap ice cream or cheap grape juice, or even like, wasn't she really picky about her tinfoil and saran wrap? Like the very brand conscious about that? But she washed was like she was very committed and insistent on particular brands, but yet she saved everything. It wasn't like she was just out having a party and spending money.
Speaker 3:Extravagance was not her thing at all. She was very thoughtful and intentional. The expensive things she bought were for completely practical purposes. She could can and bake, Her home had all the essentials and those things were going to last. But she was not buying things that were just frivolous.
Speaker 2:Except apparently every now and then she would buy a brand new shiny black pair of Mary Janes for a grandchild who knew oh, there was that story about Peg Latin that we heard.
Speaker 1:Margaret, do you want to tell that story?
Speaker 3:Oh yes, so our aunt said that when she was a little girl they lived in a double house, so our great grandparents lived on one side, Our grandparents' family lived on the other side. So it was very lived on one side, our grandparents' family lived on the other side. So it was very common for the children to go back and forth. So the grandparents had secrets. They of course needed some privacy and they would speak Pig Latin. So the grandchildren didn't know everything that was going on. Well, as most children eventually figure out, my aunt figured out what they were saying. She could understand them and she told them that she understands. Did she like repeat their whole saying? And so, as she says, the Pig Latin pretty much stopped when they figured out that the children are onto this. This is not the way to have privacy anymore.
Speaker 1:And what did you say about your own memories of Pig Latin oh this is true.
Speaker 3:So my grandma also spoke Pig Latin and as a child I was so tickled the day I figured out what she was saying, I could understand what she's saying. And then I told her what she was saying and I remember her just looking at me and that was the end of the Pig Latin. And for years and years I was just like why didn't I just be quiet? Why did I have to say everything? And then I heard my aunt had done the same thing to her grandma and I realized, hey, I'm a normal child.
Speaker 2:So I realized I don't think my kids know what Pig Latin is. Do your kids know what Pig Latin is? Yeah, I think they have a joke, I think our audience wants you to speak to us in Pig Latin.
Speaker 3:I love I Lila Fike washing, wash-aha Fashing.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I love Fie. I think La Fink that La Fat you La Foo, like, like, like La Fike, two La Foo, one La Wash.
Speaker 3:Two La Fishes.
Speaker 2:And I don't know that. I even know I love Fie.
Speaker 1:It's adding something to every syllable.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes. And how? And how do you know what we're adding?
Speaker 3:I think you just kind of go with what.
Speaker 1:Oh I think lefi between syllables.
Speaker 3:Every syllable. Yeah, see the At the end of every syllable the vowels change. Oh, I lefi do lefu li lefi kralofakers. Any linguists out there that want to explain Pig Latin to us? I La.
Speaker 1:Fie Do La Foo. Lila Fike Krala Fackers. Any linguists out there that want to explain pig Latin to us Help?
Speaker 3:us out. We are truly getting bored.
Speaker 2:Trying to figure out our grandma's secrets. That's what we're doing.
Speaker 1:And so, as we reflect on this, what are some takeaways? In terms of the value of attending a family reunion, we know that well. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't have attended if it hadn't been for the unique set of circumstances around the reunion. Otherwise, I had no intention of coming and, as we said, we were the young, we were the spring chickens there, and we can understand how difficult it can be when you're raising kids. Your family has their own travel schedule. There's so many different demands on our time and energy. Going to a family reunion to see third cousins that we've never met before can seem like something that goes at the bottom of the to-do list of our priorities. And so what are some thoughts about the value of these kinds of events? I know for myself I ended up enjoying it a lot more than I thought I would, but what do y'all think?
Speaker 2:So I would kind of be with you. I don't necessarily like groups, so that would be a good excuse right there to stay away. And I think for those of us who have in any way been shunned or disowned, it's easy to be unsure of where we belong or if we belong, and I think it might be wise to at least consider letting go of some of that and to attend these events with curiosity, to ask questions and to kind of just let things be, not attempting to worship our ancestors or to create history that wasn't, but to simply appreciate and hold what was. It's a part of our past, it's a part of who we are good or bad and to understand that that's kind of what we're living. That's what we're living for those who come after us too, and I think it's just really kind of a neat way of not just honoring the past but also the future and the present.
Speaker 3:Before I came east for this reunion, I was having a conversation with my son and I was talking to him about some of the things I had found out about my great-grandfather and he said you know, I want to leave a legacy like that too. So, coming to a reunion like this, where you don't necessarily know very many people, but there's a sense of belonging, because none of us chose to be part of this family, but we belong, and there's a human need for belonging and it's not am I good enough or not. It's. I am a descendant. That's not changing. But, like you were talking about, you know the future. I think it's great to look at these people and go, wow, I want to be like that or I don't want to be like that. And when we admire those people, I'm saying the same thing, really, that you did in my own words I just like the idea of being reminded about.
Speaker 1:What do I want my children, my great-grandchildren, to say about me? No, I agree, and I think some reunions or, you know, heritage celebrations, right, can turn into a form of hero worship or ancestor worship, or at least kind of the sense of almost exclusivity, and I think it's wonderful to be able to admire those in our past without demonizing anyone else, right. Or saying, you know, to value our past doesn't have to mean devaluing anybody else right. And so I think that another one of the benefits of learning about these parts of our past you mentioned, margaret, the hospitality. I think that's really valuable.
Speaker 1:There was a mention of the pacifism that's in our tradition. Where we live, or because of our working lives and being pulled in many different directions and maybe not having time for social relationships like we'd like, it's important to be reconnected and to be reminded of those who demonstrated hospitality, who excelled at hospitality, those who had strong relationships and connections within their communities, and I think it can remind us of how that has been done and how we can do that again, and it can inspire us to bring something to our communities as they are today, something that's really needed and really valuable, and it can bring greater connection to our daily lives and then pass that on down.
Speaker 2:So anything else before we wrap up I think one more thing that I think is kind of important is you know, we have situations where where race was not always dealt with well in our history, there were times where well-intentioned spiritual abuse happened, and I think that it's important to acknowledge and be honest about those situations and also give our kids space to be honest about the ways we drop the ball Because I were simply human and correct the patterns that were started and somehow find ways to both heal and maybe ways to redeem that, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree, and I think that's a way that we can dare to look at the darker sides.
Speaker 2:We can dare to look at the parts that would be easier to gloss over if we see them as an opportunity to grow and repair and and repair, and be brave enough to speak up about it and and to find ways to gently ask those older than what you are those questions to, to gently, um, to gently dig a little bit deeper and and I think in some ways you want to like you've had those questions, you've had those observations, but it's easy to doubt yourself and think that you're just kind of making things up. And if you can find ways to gently ask those questions, I think sometimes it brings clarity but it also gives space for change Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So at the reunion there were some artifacts from the family different family members brought and I'll drop links to some of those pics in the show notes. Also a pic of our branch of the family that was there. We had initially thought we were going to be seeing a lot of our aunts and uncles, so then it didn't work out for as many to come as we'd expected, but it was those of us who were there. We represented the Feldy Pup line and we'll put that picture in the show notes. So as we tell and retell these stories, we're not just preserving history, we're shaping how we understand ourselves and to our listeners. Whether you come from a tight-knit family or one that barely speaks, there's power in knowing what came before you and in asking those questions that Rebecca was just talking about. And sometimes there's even more power in deciding which parts you're ready to leave behind and which parts you want to take forward and how you want to do that. So thank you so much for spending time with us today.
Speaker 2:If you are in the Dee Dee Miller line or if you're in the Felty Pop line, save the date. I guess we're going to be in Sarasota in two years. We have a group on Facebook that we can add you to and make plans to join us, because we think you should be there too.
Speaker 1:And I couldn't help but think what are the things that or how could a reunion like that be structured or shaped or designed to make it more inviting, more compelling for those of us, the younger generation, those of us who have not yet retired? And if anybody has ideas for that, send them in. I mean, I'm not on the planning committee, but I can pass it on to somebody who is so. Thanks so much for joining us today, and now we're going to go have seconds of strawberry fluff.
Speaker 2:Thank you for spending time with us today. The resources and materials we've mentioned are linked in the show notes and on Facebook at Uncovered Life Beyond. What are?
Speaker 1:your thoughts about college and recovery from high demand religion. We know you have your own questions and experiences and we want to talk about the topics that matter to you. Share them with us at uncoveredlifebeyond at gmailcom. That's uncoveredlifebeyond at gmailcom.
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Speaker 1:stay brave, stay bold, stay awkward. Thank you,
