Uncovered: Life Beyond
Join the conversations of Rebecca and Naomi, two ex-Amish Mennonite women who jumped the proverbial fence in their younger years and later experienced college as first-gen, non-traditional students. They discuss pursuing formal education while raising a family, navigating the hidden curriculum of academia, and other dimensions of reimagining a life beyond high-demand religion. Send your questions to uncoveredlifebeyond@gmail.com.
Uncovered: Life Beyond
25. College 101: What to Ask on a Campus Visit
If the thought of scheduling an official campus tour fills you with uncertainty or even dread, this podcast is for you! Navigating unfamiliar places and institutions can feel daunting for any of us, including first generation students (and their parents) who may not be sure where to start or what to expect beyond the glossy brochures and flashy websites. In this episode, we (Naomi and Rebecca) talk about our own experiences with campus visits--which came much later than you might expect. Now that we have experienced campus visits from a variety of roles, we're here to give listeners the low-down about what to ask, what to listen for, and what to consider when evaluating your options. The good news is that no one has it all figured out before they get started, but it's not too soon to start exploring your options today.
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This is Rebecca and this is Naomi. We're 40-something moms and first cousins who know what it's like to veer off the path assigned to us.
Speaker 2:We've juggled motherhood, marriage, college and career, as we questioned our faith traditions while exploring new identities and ways of seeing the world.
Speaker 1:Without any maps for either of us to follow. We've had to figure things out as we go and appreciate that detours and dead ends are essential to the path Along the way, we've uncovered a few insights we want to share with fellow travelers.
Speaker 2:We want to talk about the questions we didn't know who to ask and the options we didn't know we had.
Speaker 1:So, whether you're feeling stuck or already shaking things up, we are here to cheer you on and assure you that the best is yet to come. Welcome to Uncovered Life Beyond. Hello everyone, welcome back to Uncovered Life Beyond. This is Naomi.
Speaker 2:And this is Rebecca. So today we're going to be talking about college visits, and I think it's kind of funny because this weekend I'm spending a lot of time on one of my kids' college campuses, so that's kind of been fun.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Are you there for a special event?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sort of. There's four of us in our household in college right now. My one kid is doing CCP classes through his high school, so he also gets college spring break. So lining up all the spring breaks has been its own little beast and of course they're not matching. So what we're doing is doing weekend gigs and this weekend we are in Western Ohio and my kid that's here is actually really active in the theater department with costuming and makeup and all that. The head of the theater department loves my kid because my kid could actually sew and actually enjoys to sew and I guess the person in charge is just like wow. But yeah, they're doing Pride and Prejudice, so we're going to stay for the afternoon and see the show and then head home.
Speaker 1:Oh, that sounds so fun. That sounds so fun. I didn't realize there's a stage version of Pride and Prejudice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think I would have picked up on that either. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's great. How about?
Speaker 2:you? What are you up to?
Speaker 1:Well, this week we came back from spring break and by the end of spring break I had had, as I mentioned before, I had finally got my kitchen floor mopped for the first time in a very long time. I was feeling like I had reset a lot of my personal life and in the house. But then the first couple of days back at work were just bang, bang, bang. Every minute was scheduled and the long and short of it it's been a rough week for everyone coming back from spring break for my students, for my kids and for me, and so I'm just trying to have grace for everyone. Wednesday morning I woke up and I just had this bone weary, fatigue and I went back to bed before my kids were even out the door to school. And then on Thursday, my students were supposed to have rough drafts of a piece of writing done, and one of the hardest working students in the class emailed me the morning of and said I'm so sorry, but my rough draft is just nowhere near where it needs to be. And what she didn't know was like this was the third student out of four. It was in the same shape. So we changed the deadline and, instead of workshopping in class that day we brainstormed and talked more about what they can do in their projects.
Speaker 1:Anyway, so it's not been a bad week. A lot of good things have happened this week, but it's just been a lot. And so this weekend I put together some faux floral arrangements as a gift to my future self. I would prefer to have real flower boxes on my front windows, but I know these windows are kind of shaded and I know that the reality of me getting out there to water window boxes all summer long is is iffy. And so I decided you know what I'm going to give myself permission to do faux flowers. So, fingers crossed, we'll see how that goes. Good for you.
Speaker 2:No, I remember the summer I quit buying annuals because I realized I was doing good by keeping my kids fed and watering my flowers. Just about put me over the edge. Like, yes, just about put me over the edge, which I know. I know the good moms get their kids to water the flower plants. I know I wasn't there.
Speaker 1:And you know what? That is really easy advice for someone who doesn't have to manage the kids and coordinate that. Yeah, and maybe some kids are better. Maybe some kids are more cooperative and on board with that kind of thing than Right.
Speaker 2:Right, but I also, you know, at that point I had three kids under the age of I don't know, five, I don't know oh my goodness, you don't want those.
Speaker 1:You don't want preschoolers out watering your flowers.
Speaker 2:You don't want to give them the responsibility At that point, my flowers would have probably been grateful for anyone to be watering them, but still, still, yeah, and at this point I've just been, I've still been very careful about buying. I don't buy as many as I know a lot of my friends do, because I got to water the dang things and then if we leave for a week of vacation, I have to organize who's going to water them while we're gone, and it's just, oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely no, I hear you. I hear you. So our topic today is about questions to ask on campus visits to colleges, and it seems appropriate that you're visiting a campus maybe not for the purpose that we're talking about today, but I thought it might be interesting to start out talking about our history of campus visits.
Speaker 1:Sorry, we have a kid up our alley, нааа. We're on campus to interview her after the company kicks in. Yeah, yeah, all right, I'm done, da-daddy, and I think you have a pretty extensive one. So, of the four people in your household who are in college, how many campus visits does that represent in terms of, like, checking out a potential college?
Speaker 2:Well, ok, so when I enrolled, I never once had the thought of doing a college visit or college campus visit Like. I never had the thought, which, in hindsight, I'm like, really Like, but no, I didn't have the thought.
Speaker 1:I don't think I did either. So yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 2:And in hindsight I'm kind of curious if I would have had the thought and I would have went. I'm wondering if I would have stayed where I'm at. But anyway, because then at about a year ago I think it was last summer I went and did another campus visit for myself. So I'm, I'm in Amish country, in the middle of Ohio, and if I go 45 minutes north there's a college branch campus in a small town or smaller town, and if I go 45 minutes south there's another one. And I just accidentally went north and about a year ago I did a campus visit at the one to my, to the south, and I think I would have had a better experience there, knowing what you know now, knowing what I know now. And I've ended up not transferring because some of the classes that I had down for my major they wouldn't have accepted and I'm just so ready to graduate I cannot do one more class that I don't need to do.
Speaker 2:And the other thing that was very real for me is I have scholarships lined up. I know the process, they know me, they seem to like me and I'm kind of like at this point I don't know, I don't know, but for when the twins were looking at colleges. We probably went on one I bet. We went to six different campuses at least and that was really interesting In some ways. I think my last kid is going to benefit from the opportunity of going. He didn't go to all of those campuses but he went to most of them and I think just seeing the different campuses, the different setups, the different sizes and just feeling the different vibes was really interesting. And I think the more you are on different campuses, the more you kind of observe what to look for and even what questions to ask.
Speaker 1:I agree, and there have been studies done on the impact of just visiting a college campus and I'm thinking it's something like as young as middle school or 11 years old just stepping foot on a college campus makes a student much more likely to go to college. Now, I'm sure that has something to do with proximity and there's all kinds of socioeconomic things and cultural things that are involved there. But definitely, yeah, I am sure it will benefit your youngest. I'm sure that will benefit your youngest, if nothing else, just in giving him a frame of reference for what's important to him.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think anytime you're around something, the more often you're around it, you develop a sense or a intuition Right, of what feels right and not necessarily a right or wrong.
Speaker 1:What to?
Speaker 2:expect? Yeah, and what feeling feels right for you?
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely, which. That's the difference between a first generation and a non first generation student.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. And on that note, there are a lot of opportunities for you as a parent to take your young kids to college campuses. A lot of the campuses have plays that they do, that you could attend they have, and usually the tickets are really cheap. I mean, I think for tickets to go to the play this weekend is like 35 bucks or something. But they do performances, they do sporting events. The campus here in Northern Ohio actually I guess it's more Western Ohio, sorry Community families often bring their kids in just to play in the park and they have like a little creek area. Kids are always playing in the creek. So there's, and you can go to college campuses just to walk around, just for a walk and riding bikes. So there's a lot of easy ways to take your kids to campus without having to go through the hoopla of organizing it with anyone. You don't have to ask for permission to go is what I'm trying to get to.
Speaker 1:Agreed, agreed. So those buildings are public buildings and especially like a library or a classroom building. You can walk in there and just walk around and get a feel for the place, and it's worth it to do that if you have an opportunity, even if you don't actually talk to anyone or make it an official visit.
Speaker 2:Which was something I did not know. I would have always assumed that if I was going to go there and walk around, I would have needed to let someone know why I'm here and why I'm walking around, and you don't have to do that. No, no.
Speaker 1:There's way too many people. There's way too many people there for them to keep tabs on everyone. Yeah, right For sure.
Speaker 1:So what was your experience Well similar to yours in that I don't think I did a campus visit. I did. I was on the campus before I went, but I was living in Oklahoma City when I decided to go back to college and at the time, I mean, I was within driving distance of University of Oklahoma and the thought of going there was so intimidating I did not even consider it, not for a hot second. There were a couple of community colleges in the area, but what I ended up doing was going back out to Western Oklahoma where there was a regional state school, and it was the kind of thing where I was. I had driven by the campus many, many times when I lived out there. My family was out there. It felt manageable, it did not feel as intimidating.
Speaker 1:And when I think back to the fact that I didn't apply anywhere except there, because, yeah, because it was kind of like well, if I don't go here, then where am I going to go? And in retrospect I wish I had applied more places just to see what would happen, but it was just so far outside of my frame of reference. It just that was just a bridge too far.
Speaker 2:Well, and in the moment it's such a brave thing to do. Even just applying to one is so brave, and it's what you know. I mean, it's what you know.
Speaker 1:What you don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, there's so much you don't know, Right, right, right right.
Speaker 1:But I agree with you, I agree, I agree. So, that said, I feel very, very fortunate that it turned out as well as it did for me. I had wonderful professors and it was definitely a positive experience, all that. But the school didn't have some programs that I had been hoping for, like study abroad programs, that kind of thing, and so when I came here to the college where I'm teaching now, I realized, oh, this was the kind of college experience I was really wanting, but I didn't know, I didn't know to look for it, I didn't know where to look for it, I didn't know what words to use, and so that's. I think that is a real barrier for a lot of first generation students is not having the background to articulate what it is they're looking for.
Speaker 2:Well, and like I've often kind of laughed a little bit People talking about the one room schoolhouse thing. Nielmi, we had a three room schoolhouse Right. I mean okay with a basement, like where we could play four square. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the one room we had oh, I guess it had been four rooms, because I was going to say the one room we had had had just a divider down the middle, right, like so- A hundred students in a good year. Yeah, yeah, so going from that to any college campus is huge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a scale that folks with our background anyway are not. It's so foreign, right. So foreign, yeah. So, in thinking about things to do before going on an official campus visit, we've mentioned just walking around campus and going to attending events. If you're really serious or you're really interested in learning more, googling the, the school, looking at their website and and also their social media presence and what has been said in the news about them you know what's it, what are people saying more broadly and it doesn't mean that if you read something negative that it's automatically something to dismiss. It's more just something to note, take note of, and maybe there's more to the story and but also maybe it's a red flag and so it's worth doing a little bit of that because it might help inform the questions you ask once you're on campus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, agreed, agreed. So when we go on the official campus tour, some things I've kind of learned to watch for. And, by the way, the first time you go, be prepared to be overwhelmed. It is overwhelming and I remember trying to be. You know the calming influence for my kids and you know I was just freaked out as they were. But typically they do have a pretty good setup as far as guides, so you won't be by yourself. I mean, they have a program that they follow for the day.
Speaker 1:The students are usually trained to be the tour guides and they're not expecting anything from you. They are just expecting you to show up and they're gonna walk you around. They're gonna do the talking. If you have questions, you can ask questions, but it's not like they are expecting you to do anything other than see what they got.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, just so you know, you'll have to register for a college tour, which was something I wouldn't have even been aware of. And when my twins were looking for colleges, it was during the COVID chaos and there were some online like a virtual tours that you could do, and even in that it was quite fascinating and we did several of those. I remember the one my twins were sitting there and they got off and they're just like how pretentious can you be? But even that was an awareness of the vibe and it was pretentious. They were absolutely pretentious.
Speaker 2:The twins had good enough scores that I encouraged them to apply at some colleges that were a bit more what's the word? More elite, more elite, yeah, just on the off chance that they would get a good scholarship. And they did both end up getting really good scholarships, but not necessarily at elite campuses, which is fine, and we'll talk about that in just a bit. But yes, you'll definitely want to have questions prepared for about the college, but then also about specific programs, and when you register they'll ask you that they will ask what programs the student is interested in.
Speaker 1:And usually they will try to get a faculty member from that program to talk with you and just chat with you and there's no assumption that you are actually coming. They understand you are there to check them out.
Speaker 2:It's not like you are there to be judged Right. In fact, the pressure's on them.
Speaker 1:The pressure's on them to impress you.
Speaker 2:They're trying to recruit you and your kid. Something that was big for us was we and again I was sending twins. We always look for coupons when we go shopping. Something that was big for us was scholarships and then figuring out the difference between the sticker price and then what you actually pay. At the one campus we were at and I think it was a campus visit they had like a carpet that you could walk and get your picture taken with I don't know somebody important Because it was a commitment you were committing to go to this college and kids were lining up, people were cheering and I remember being like so puzzled.
Speaker 2:So there was a staff member sitting at a computer, you know, kind of over to the side, and I just went over to him and I said you know, I think we missed something. I said I see all these kids lining up and they're, you know, committing to coming and they're excited about it. But we never got any kind of package explaining what we can expect to pay. And he looks at me and in that moment I realized that I totally misread the room. He looks at me and he snorts and he goes oh, no one here has any idea what they're paying and I was like really and he's like really.
Speaker 2:And I'm like I don't understand. And he's like not everyone shops the way you do.
Speaker 1:So well, but there's kind of a dance between the students who are applying and the schools who are making offers, and so the school doesn't want to give out all the scholarships too early, but then also students don't want to make a commitment, families don't want to make a commitment until they know what other options are. So there's like this dance that goes on during the application season. Yeah, Right.
Speaker 2:Well, and then later that day we did find out that our students had qualified for a really nice scholarship, and this is really important, and probably, if I wasn't married to an accountant, we wouldn't have figured this out.
Speaker 2:But this specific scholarship was very detailed in the fact that the kid is attending with a free ride an academic free ride OK, but any other scholarship money you have come in will go against the scholarship they're providing.
Speaker 2:It will not go for room or board, it will not go for books, so so so. So what we did was talk to the place that scholarship was coming from, and they specified on their letter that this money needs to take away from the final amount that the student is paying and that it should actually specifically go to room and board. So the first year, of course, it wasn't applied correctly, and so we had to go through all the emailing and and finally and I think we did this both years we did do this two years and we'll probably have to do it again this fall, but I had to do an email that included the college and also included the place the scholarship came from and said I understand that you do not want to apply this money to my students final cost. So I'm assuming you're going to send this money back to the place the scholarship came from, because you're not following their guidelines, guys.
Speaker 2:That's the only way we got the money. Well, yeah, so really watch that stuff, especially when it's coming from colleges. Your private scholarships are typically, from what I've experienced, not quite that detailed or even like.
Speaker 1:There aren't that many restrictions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but some of the scholarships specifically from colleges can be a little tricky.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, yes, Well, and so many colleges, so many non elite colleges, right? So there's two different groups here are really scraping by on a very narrow margin and they want the good students and they know I mean families are tapped out and they know families need a good deal and so they know they need to discount. But also, the more they discount, the harder it's going to be the narrow margin they have and they are already. Again, you know, professors and staff at non elite institutions are generally underpaid and generally paid less than public school, right, right.
Speaker 2:It's bad, it's not okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, understanding that that's where they're coming from, they're just trying to stay afloat and also you are wanting to stretch your money and you have every reason to to look out for your own interests and your kids yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's part of playing the game. It's part of playing the game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. I think some other things to look out for at the campus level are things like safety protocols. What kind of lighting is there? So that doesn't hurt to make an unofficial visit at night, absolutely.
Speaker 2:What it's like, how many blue boxes are there, or how many blue light boxes are there, and how consistently do that. You see them. Are there street lights that aren't working? All of that is so important. It really is. Something else that we found important was clubs. Are there clubs that interest your kid?
Speaker 1:because, honestly, Suit organizations, yeah, yeah, and activities.
Speaker 2:Right and oftentimes that's where my kids found their friends Right. D&d clubs my one kid is in fencing. All those different clubs is oftentimes where you find friends, and different colleges will have a different amount of clubs and I think it's kind of important.
Speaker 1:And also if you know there's a particular interest that you or a student has, it's worth not only asking if they have that club or organization or activity available, but ask some follow-up questions because there is a wide range of level of activity. Like I'm an advisor for a club right now.
Speaker 1:That is pretty much non-active, just because, of the number of students who happen to be involved this year Now other years there've been a lot more students, so it just kind of depends on the mix, a whole lot of different dynamics. Next year I think there's going to be new leadership and I think things are going to turn around Right, but if someone came wanting to be active in this particular group, they'd be really disappointed, yeah, you know. And so I think finding out oh, what does that activity, what does that group do, and finding out about that is the little bit of the details can make a big difference too. Yeah, and then also like housing.
Speaker 2:Housing was huge for us, yeah.
Speaker 1:And when you say it was huge for you, what does you mean in terms of cost, in terms of the conditions of the housing Conditions? Okay, statistically, housing is a major factor for a lot of families.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so at my the one kid's college, because she's in the honors program, she gets really nice housing like air conditioning, microwave refrigerators, provided individual bathroom like her and her roommate have their own bathroom Like it is. It is pretty nice. The other kid, their rooming, isn't quite as nice, in fact not really nice at all, but we knew that going into it and we ended up buying an air conditioner because the kid kind of needed to sleep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, pay attention to housing. They're going to show you their nicest rooms. They're not going to show you the oldest questionable rooms.
Speaker 1:And especially if this is one of the large, like state schools, where they are just cramming students in.
Speaker 2:they've got some really Plus my kids would say very sus rooms, very sus. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But here's the thing, here's the one thing in defense of less than stellar housing is, you know, like? My understanding is that traditionally, housing has been intentionally less than stellar to help encourage students shy students beginning of their college career to get out of their rooms oh really, and get out and socialize and get to know people. So there's.
Speaker 2:I'm good with that. I'm good with that as long as, like, I keep hearing stories about mold. I keep hearing stories about showers that don't drain public showers that don't drain.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a problem.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a big problem and, for the love of God, when you're packing up your kids, make sure they have shower shoes, right, yeah, good advice. Something else I always kind of asked for was about the options as far as mental health therapists. What were the options? Some schools provide it totally free. Some schools say they'll give you six.
Speaker 1:Six visits, six free visits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my one kid is at a school where amazing, amazing help she gets incredible help. The other kid we had to go off campus, Mm-hmm, and I had asked the question. I'm not sure that I actually got an honest response, Mm-hmm. To me that is problematic Not having a therapist on a college campus. I just don't understand. I just think that's hugely problematic.
Speaker 1:I think it says something, or it could. It could say something about how seriously the institution takes mental health. Yeah, and I agree. Getting into the details, like if they say, oh, we have a therapist here, but it's one therapist for thousands of students, then that's not, it doesn't matter if it's all free. If the student has to wait four months to get in, that's just not going to work. Some might have groups, right, so even if they only see a therapist a few times but then they get transitioned into a group, but everybody's needs are so unique it's hard to know exactly, but I think asking about it, asking some follow-up questions, asking to meet the counseling staff, that might not be possible. But here's the thing.
Speaker 1:This was back 10 years ago. I remember hearing it was before 10 years ago. It's been longer than that. I remember reading a stat that 10% of students come to college planning to get counseling. Wow, and I don't remember what percentage actually seek it out, but 10% are already playing. So that meant in my classroom of 20 students, two of those students came planning to seek out counseling before they ever got to college. And I think you know maybe they were. You know, if they're on their parents insurance. They want the privacy of seeking counseling where it's not going to be on anybody's insurance. So what I guess what I'm saying is don't feel shy about this. And that was a few years ago, and we are very aware of the mental health needs of students. The question is what is the institution doing about it? Is their attitude well, these kids just need to buck up? Or is their attitude yes, and here's what we're doing about it? Yeah, with both kids.
Speaker 2:I asked and I actually tried really hard to have it set up, as they were going like two weeks after they got there they would have that lined up. That is so smart, I feel. Yeah. Yeah, and guys, don't wait.
Speaker 1:Don't wait for it If you think your kid or yourself might benefit from it. It's a lot easier to cancel an appointment if you don't need it, because there will be somebody else to take that thought, than to get in once you are at a breaking point. Don't wait for the breaking point.
Speaker 2:What I didn't understand is the one campus was kind of giving me a run around. That's because they didn't have anything available Exactly and I didn't understand that in the moment. So if they're giving you a run around, they probably don't have anything available.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, yes, I agree, I agree. And if you're not sure you know, one person is kind of giving you an evasive answer ask another person. Yeah, and if you get several evasive answers then yeah, it's probably not there. The first person you ask just might not know. But yeah, right right, these days, these days, if a campus has that it's well known, it's a breaking point. Yeah, absolutely, the food scene, oh, important, I tell you, and this can really vary from one school to another, and not only the quality of the food. How expensive is it? When is it open? What?
Speaker 2:options Like I have a kid that's dairy free, what options do they have? If you have a kid that's gluten free, what options do they have? Go eat that food. Like take advantage, check that out. Is there microwaves available for commuter students?
Speaker 1:Yes, if you are a commuter student, like the institution I went to, had a lounge for commuter students. I didn't even know about it until I had been there for several years and so I never actually used it, but it would have been really nice to know about that. But asking about those kinds of things and maybe they might call it something else, or it might be like oh well, this lounge over here is the one that people use or whatever, but finding out about that is really valuable. And if they're bragging about their big upgrade this campus dining and then it turns out that they've pulled out all the microwaves, which that or dramatically reduce the number of microwaves available to students, that annoys me, because to me that means they're just trying to force people to Air food, buy their food. Yeah, so these are some of the kinds of things to be asking about in terms of the campus as a whole. But then we can also think about questions to ask when you're looking at specific academic programs and my institution. When someone puts down that they're interested in English or creative writing or literature or something like that, we get an email from admissions asking who would be available on the day that the student would be there, and then we'll sit and we'll chat with them, find out what they're interested in and tell them about the opportunities that are available to them in our program.
Speaker 1:And the range of experiences from my end on the professor end is really interesting, because often the students are still in high school the ones that I see are still in high school and so I have to try to balance the conversation between the parents and the student, because the student is who I really need to connect with.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, the parents are often the ones putting the bill Right.
Speaker 1:I know I need to establish rapport with them too, so, but getting a vibe on how the faculty interact with the students is so important and here's the tricky thing and it's so hard to figure this out in advance.
Speaker 1:But on one hand, it can be really impressive to go to an elite school, because often you do get all kinds of cool opportunities at an elite school and they might also have more funding available as well Financial aid for folks to qualify. The flip side is that you tend to have a lot more ego. You have a lot more folks with big egos at a more elite institution, and what that can mean is your kid's advisor, if they have an, you know, if they have a faculty member, their advisor might be more interested in their own career than in supporting your student. And so that is where sometimes going with a less elite institution that is more that is focused on its teaching mission is going to get you a better experience, because you're going to have someone who is is not there to build their own career or their career is working with students, not not their publishing record Right.
Speaker 2:Well, and even fascinatingly enough, the one college my kid is at, it's like, the professors are like call me Steve, yeah. And the other college is like oh well, I'm Dr Steve, whatever. Yes, and not that it's right or wrong, but it's definitely a different vibe, yeah, yeah. And the one college even invited us to sit in on classes and we did.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, I strongly recommend that. And if you can sit in on more than one, because, yeah, two professors are going to do things very differently. But if you do see a pattern, that's good to know, yeah, positive or negative one.
Speaker 2:Right right. Something we asked about was what type of employment expectations their graduates tend to have or can have. My one kid is in animation and game design, which I knew nothing about, and that was something I thought their professor did a really good job of talking about, and I'm sure they did it partially to assure the parents that, yeah, your kid will graduate and actually have a chance to get a job.
Speaker 2:But that was really important because you want your kid to have a job and I think asking that type of question is something I wouldn't have necessarily thought about initially, but I think it's a really important question.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, because not only is it a question about will this degree program get my child ready for, or myself ready for, the job market, but it's not just about the academic program, as in English, versus animation and game design, but it's about what do the faculty, what does the, what does that specific program have set up by way of getting the job? What does that specific program have set up by way of getting students the experiences they need so that when they go on the job market they've got a resume? Sometimes it's less about the major and more about the department, if that makes sense. So, for example, here's what I mean and some of this is about a time, it's a time frame thing. When I was in undergrad as an English major, there was no discussion of internships. There was no. There was very little discussion about what are you going to do with?
Speaker 2:your English major.
Speaker 1:There was some, but not just, and nothing official. Where I am now, students have opportunities to get published. They have opportunities to edit, to get editing experience, and we really push internships and we have a whole infrastructure for them. And, like I was talking with a student this week, he wants to be a sports writer, and he's he's an English major, and we were talking about what kind of classes he wants to go, what kind of classes are interesting to him. What's going to get him ahead is getting experience writing for newspaper, you know, covering sports while he's still in college, and I said what your classes are going to do. Your classes aren't going to. You're not going to have many classes about sports writing. Your classes, though, are going to give you the background to make you be a really smart sports writer. You know you can drop in a reference to Aristotle or whatever right and and and. That's going to make you a high quality sports writer. So, instead of seeing classes as job training, see the on the job experience, or the, the getting a publication record, as what's going to get him a job afterward. But the education he's getting along the way is going to go way beyond just getting him a job.
Speaker 1:Then there's also honors programs. Here at the campus where I am, we also have a civic engagement program for students who are interested in those kinds of things. There's also a first generation student program that gives students a cohort experience. They also get a little bit extra funding and it helps students feel like they belong and they give them a sense of here are other folks who are having a similar experience to me and sometimes students also find that out in clubs, organizations that are in the academic program, and that's really important for networking.
Speaker 1:When you're five, 10 years out from graduation and you need to make a job change or you need to recruit someone for a position that you're hiring for, that professional network is really going to come in useful. You just don't know, but that is important and it also says something about the sense of community that exists there and the level of investment that the faculty have in students, and that can vary even within a program, but that's really important to know and what's important is that you feel this faculty member is someone that I or my child, whoever the student would feel comfortable coming to, would feel comfortable sending an SOS message to, and feeling like it would be taken seriously, that's so huge and so important.
Speaker 2:For us the honors programs were actually pretty important. The twins did get pretty good grades and sometimes I think when you have a student that excels, I don't think I understood sometimes the level of boredom that they experienced and in the one college it's a really good honors program.
Speaker 2:actually Some of the best professors and best classes that kid had were in the honors programs and it's something they reference to a lot. And again, it's not a make or break deal but it's worth asking Because they're in the honors program. They also get to do housing first. They're at the top of the list of housing. They're at the top of the list of classes, class options. They can pick how asses first. So just check that out and be aware of it.
Speaker 1:And when you ask about the honors program, I think it's important to ask what does it mean at this institution? Because every institution it means something a little bit different. It does mean something different and I'm glad you brought this up because I know here what it means is that students work in groups on an independent research project. So if someone's headed to grad school, this kind of thing would give them independent research experience and it's a whole thing. It's a whole program and I've served as a faculty mentor with a group and it had its ups and downs. But out of that situation students got experience with grant writing. They got experience doing some really cool things that were very useful in their professional development.
Speaker 1:And some time ago I was at a small retreat for faculty. We were talking about interdisciplinarity and somebody at this table who was from another school here in Iowa said was describing having hired someone recently because of their interdisciplinary experience. It turned out he was talking about one of our students. The student had the credentials but that experience with the interdisciplinary research that the Honors Program gave them, made them stand out among the other applicants in the stack. So asking specifically how does the Honors Program work? How do you qualify for it? What is the payoff? Different schools will get different answers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the one thing that was kind of interesting on one of our college visits. Well, we had done about six of them. The one college visit we did was different. We didn't really know it going into it, but about half ways through the day we had met faculty and we had been wind and dined.
Speaker 2:Well, not wind, but we'd been dined and, like Lude, matt and I kept looking at each other. We're like, is this normal? And I mean we saw every corner of campus and they kept pulling out different people. And finally, the last professor we met with we kind of known beforehand and we were like, well, that's interesting that we're meeting with him. And all of a sudden Matt's like hey, I've got a question for you. Was our experience today normal? Do you do this for every student? And I was like, well, you just went there and the professor kind of laughed and he's like no, we really kind of want your kids.
Speaker 2:It was a Mennonite college. Our kids would have had the Mennonite background. They typically got jocks. They wanted more artsy, more academic kids. And there was another thing involved and I forget what it was. But anyway, pay attention to that as well. Not every college is going to want your kid, but there might be colleges that do want your kid and pay attention to that.
Speaker 2:And that college ended up being a good fit for the one kid, wasn't a good fit for the other kid. First of all, it's kind of fabulous being wind and dine for a whole day. I mean it's like, oh, I think I'm important and I didn't know this, but also it wasn't a good fit for our one kid and we knew that. So pay attention to that, because that is also going to be important and I think, more than anything, let's not put too much pressure on ourselves or on our kid. We don't know the unknown. You can't predict the unknown, and I think it's so important to go with what you know. I mean, for us, money ended up being a big deal and we also got colleges that turned us down, and that was okay. But be careful that money isn't always the most important guide. It's important, but I think it would have been easy for me to put too much.
Speaker 1:Too much stock in the final price, the price tag. I mean, I'm a bargain shopper. Absolutely, absolutely. We can't help it. It's in our blood, right, right, right.
Speaker 2:But college is more than just the cost. But at the same time you want to make sure that you're getting your money's worth out of it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yes, for as much time and energy and money as it takes. You definitely do want it to be worth all that, and also being prepared to transfer If that becomes necessary, and to recognize that's not the end of the world and expect you might need to change course and always have that in mind. Don't feel like you have to find the one right way, because, as we talked a few episodes ago, the secret is not finding the one true path, right, right, but it's about adjusting as you go on.
Speaker 2:Thank you for spending time with us today. The resources and materials we've mentioned are linked in the show notes and on Facebook at Uncovered Life Beyond.
Speaker 1:What are your thoughts about college and recovery from high demand religion? We know you have your own questions and experiences and we want to talk about the topics that matter to you. Share them with us at UncoveredLifeBeyond at gmailcom. That's UncoveredLifeBeyond at gmailcom.
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