Uncovered: Life Beyond
Join the conversations of Rebecca and Naomi, two ex-Amish Mennonite women who jumped the proverbial fence in their younger years and later experienced college as first-gen, non-traditional students. They discuss pursuing formal education while raising a family, navigating the hidden curriculum of academia, and other dimensions of reimagining a life beyond high-demand religion. Send your questions to uncoveredlifebeyond@gmail.com.
Uncovered: Life Beyond
19. When Best-Laid Plans Fail
Ever been sucker-punched by the realization that you've dropped the ball on something super important? If so, come sit with us! In this episode we unpack big feelings about a recent slip-up in the balancing act of work, family, and school. We can't tell you how to prevent the curveballs, but we can assure you that you're not alone and that it's all part of being human. In fact, asking for grace and leaning on each other is not only natural—it's essential for our collective well-being.
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This is Rebecca and this is Naomi. We're 40-something moms and first cousins who know what it's like to veer off the path assigned to us.
Speaker 2:We've juggled motherhood, marriage, college and career, as we questioned our faith traditions while exploring new identities and ways of seeing the world.
Speaker 1:Without any maps for either of us to follow. We've had to figure things out as we go and appreciate that detours and dead ends are essential to the path Along the way, we've uncovered a few insights we want to share with fellow travelers.
Speaker 2:We want to talk about the questions we didn't know who to ask and the options we didn't know we had.
Speaker 1:So whether you're feeling stuck or already shaking things up, we are here to cheer you on and assure you that the best is yet to come. Welcome to Uncovered Life Beyond. Hello everyone, Welcome back to Uncovered Life Beyond. This is Naomi.
Speaker 2:And this is Rebecca. We are so excited to be with you again today. We took a little bit of break here, didn't we?
Speaker 1:We did. I was afraid we'd never get back. No matter how much life pulls us away, I can't stop thinking about the conversations I'm going to have on this podcast, right, it's true? Yeah Well, and then we start talking to each other and it's like, oh, we need to record this. I know we have, at this rate, we've got dozens of topics we want to talk about. Yeah, that's true. So one of these days, one at a time one step at a time We'll get there.
Speaker 1:So our topic today really fits well with this idea of trying to fit things in. We're going to talk about what to do when you miss a deadline and the impossible juggle of work, life and school. It's something that's going to happen sooner or later, and I think we've all known that pit in the stomach feeling when we realize we've forgotten something really important, and it can be hard to know what to do next, or it can sometimes feel like now we've sinned the unpardonable sin and maybe we've screwed everything up. But the good news is that everybody does it sooner or later and it's not ending your career before it even starts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most things that we get really uptight about tend not to be quite as much of a crisis as it's easy to feel like it is.
Speaker 1:Right and I've recently started saying, when I'm feeling stressed and seeing deadlines coming up and feeling all the things I need to be doing, I've started saying but is anybody dying? Right? And if nobody's life is at stake, then we'll get through it and there's no reason to give myself a stomach ulcer or a migraine just because of a technicality.
Speaker 2:Right, Besides for death and taxes. We usually can figure out a way to fix it and be okay.
Speaker 1:Nothing of deadlines and missing them or not. How's that been working out for you?
Speaker 2:Well, you kind of just saw one happen in my life firsthand, didn't you?
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:And I was glad I could be there to talk you off the ledge.
Speaker 2:And it was a ledge, yeah, it was. So I'm realizing that it feels like so much of life is this carefully planned juggle, and I don't think I realized how far in advance I think, okay, I can get this done here, and then we'll get this done here, and this will be done by this date. Okay, we can get this done here. Great, it's going to be fine, we're going to do it. And when one little thing kind of drops in that whole juggle, it's like a domino effect, and it really kind of messed me up.
Speaker 2:So was this back in September, october, october Okay, that's right, because it would have been.
Speaker 2:My midterms were coming up, we had planned a cousin's weekend, and I knew, like I knew, my midterms were with, or lining up with, that weekend, but I was like I can do it because we were just going to get things done sooner, and it was all good. What I had going on, though, was, at the end of October, I had a huge open house thing I do, and I was needing to get out that information to my clients, and didn't the printer lose my order. So, instead of me getting the mailing out the week previously, I needed to get it out the same week as our cousins weekend and midterms and so I had this moment of panic and I'm like, okay, okay, we can do this, we can do this. So I went back to my calendar and I'm like, okay, so we're going to do the mailings here, I'm going to work, get this midterm done. You know, on this date, this date, this date and I thought I had everything planned out perfectly Earlier in the week, I got two of my midterms done, and I mean the first one, I had a hundred on, and the second one I had a 96.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, okay, okay, we're doing this, we're doing this You're unstoppable.
Speaker 2:My mailings were getting out, I was getting all the prep stuff done for the weekend. I'm like, okay, okay, we're good. And the cousins weekend actually started on Thursday evening and we were up late, we were talking, everything was good, and I was going to get up early Friday morning and do the one it would have been my third exam and then finish off an essay that I had to have in what I thought was on Sunday and I was like, okay, I'll work on that essay and then I'll submit it Saturday morning and I'll still be a day ahead of the schedule. So I mean, I'm feeling good about life, we've got this going. And Naomi wakes up Friday morning and wonders why I'm in tears. So I wake up, I get in to do my quiz and I'm like, why is it not here?
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I dig around and I go in for my essay and I'm like wait, that's not here either. What happened? And you know how your heart starts beating and you're like oh my goodness, what did I do? What did I do here? I realized that the due date for both the one quiz and the essay was exactly the same time. We were all sitting around my table, ooh yeah.
Speaker 1:So carefree, so happy with yourself for having everything figured out.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, guys, seriously, the next part kind of gets funny. A little embarrassing, but funny. The first professor I sent one email and I'm like, oh my God, I'm freaking out. What do I do? I just figured out I missed it.
Speaker 2:And yes, I know you send out a reminder email, but I have company coming in and I forgot to check it. And then I send another email and I'm like, no, really, I don't know what to do. I've never done this before. Like what do I do? And then I send out a third email and they were all just like these little snippets. Finally I send out the fifth email and I'm embarrassed at this point and I'm like, okay, I'm sorry, you did not deserve those first four emails. I have no good excuse, I just simply got the dates wrong. I don't know how I did this. The worst part is I'm entertaining all weekend. I don't know. Tell me what you want me to do. This is my fault. So I was owning it For the essay.
Speaker 2:I was like, okay, how can I let him know? And I knew this professor was a bit older and didn't check his email quite as regularly. And I'm like, okay, how can I fix this? So I had sent him a panic email as well. So with this guy on the second email, I'm like you know what? Here's the deal. I'm gonna be gone all day. I know it's the weekend for you. I'm just going to submit the essay as I have it. It's not pretty, it's not cleaned up, I'm sure there's going to be typos, but I'm going to submit it as it is and I don't know. You can do with it what you want. So that's about the time you showed up and talked to me off the ledge and told me it'll be okay. I think.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, and you know it seems especially cruel when that kind of thing happens after you have put so much effort into lining everything up to be just so, you know, to fit it all in, and then you realize, whoops, you overlook some detail or something didn't go according to plan and now everything comes crashing down. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, and the truth of it is like so this is, I think, my sixth fall in college and typically I only did two or three classes, because that fourth class just always seemed like too much to keep up with Totally. But I got myself in a situation where if I did two classes from the parent company or from the parent university and two classes from the branch university, I could double dip on scholarships. And who am I not to double dip? Yeah, you don't pass up free money, right? So that's kind of how I got myself into these four classes, which I didn't usually do.
Speaker 1:So we, which, by the way, four classes, that amounts to full-time load at most schools anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it would be. And again I have my own little business I'm doing, and then I work two or three days as well.
Speaker 1:So I mean oh, and you have family responsibilities and you're hosting overnight guests over the weekend. I mean, yeah, you've got a million and one other things too, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we went about our day, we did our cousin's day all day and I'm like thinking about this, but I'm just like let it go, let it go. And I come home to the kindest email from my first professor, the one you spammed with yeah, the one I spammed. I'm still a little bit horrified about that. I mean, guys, I sent him five emails. That's very sweet, that's very sweet.
Speaker 2:I bet he was reading these emails thinking, oh sweetie. But he wrote thank you for the emails. Rebecca, I can speak from experience about the challenges of being a non-traditional student. I understand the extra barriers that it brings. You have done very well in the class thus far and you have demonstrated that you understand the concepts we have discussed. So I'm willing to certainly give you the benefit of the doubt in this situation. Getting a zero on this exam because of a misunderstanding would not be an accurate reflection of how well you are progressing in this class. I will open the exam up for you until this Sunday. So he gave me like a two-day grace period that should give you time to handle the responsibilities you have this weekend and still leave you with enough time to complete the exam. Please let me know if you have any questions. And that did kind of make me cry. I was like that is so kind and so gracious and it's kind of a weird feeling to be on the other side of really needing grace.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes as a mom female, whatever it can feel like, we're always extending grace to other people and to sit on this side of it was kind of humbling. And so I did that exam, I think the next morning, because I was like, oh my god, I am not going to mess this one up. Yeah, and I got I don't know 90 something. Of course you did.
Speaker 2:Well, I felt a lot of pressure because after all my five emails it was like I could not get a bad or I could not get a good grade. And then the other professor, like I had imagined I don't think I heard back from him for like three or four days, like buddy, make me suffer and he was like, yeah, well, I get it. And to be fair, at this point I think I had got 100 on everything I'd submitted. We had weekly things we needed to submit and at that point I got 100% on everything. So I kind of expected him to be fairly gracious about it as well. And he was, and I ended up getting an 87, I think on that one and I'm sure there were typos like probably I deserve the 87. 87 is still above average.
Speaker 1:Is it really? Yeah, a, b, a. B is supposed to be above average. I mean, that's that's an. A is so C is average, b is above average, a is exceptional, so you got to be plus. That's not too shabby.
Speaker 2:I don't think I'd ever thought about the grades that way. I'm not sure if I knew that that's how the grades were.
Speaker 1:With grade inflation, it does adjust the expectations. So I think a lot of students now see a C as being marked down instead of as average or as accepted or, you know, acceptable. But yeah, technically that's how it's supposed to be.
Speaker 2:Interesting. Well, I haven't received many 87s and I was kind of laughing at myself because I was totally good with it.
Speaker 1:Oh, when I give an 87 on a paper it's pretty good. Oh, really, I have students that get other, you know, get higher grades than that. But especially yeah, it's not every day, not every day and it depends on the assignment I think you should feel very good about yourself, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I certainly, at this point in my life, was not going to complain.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's. That's really something to be proud of. I'm trying to remember what I said to you that morning. Did it, did it pan out? Was I right? I mean that's, that's an obnoxious question.
Speaker 2:No, it's a fair question actually, because you did talk me off the ledge and I think what you kind of said and maybe asked and I'm not sure how much I volunteered, because I know like when I get in a panic like this, my goal is to talk myself out of this, right? Of course, people who know me and love me mostly put up with it in good humor. My sister laughs because I totally talked myself out of a ticket with a police officer, basically spamming him as well with questions. So so yeah, apparently this is my mode of operation I didn't even know existed. I think you asked me what my grades were so far and you were like Rebecca, they're gonna be fine If you're getting 100% so far in the class, they're not gonna throw you out. And you also reassured me that the average professor wants their student to be successful and the average professor understands that life happens, particularly for adult students, right, and I've been recognizing that professors do seem to truly give grace when they understand you're also responsible for other people, other kids.
Speaker 1:Right. Right, Because the traditional kind of conventional idea would be that if a student isn't getting their work done, it's because they were out partying. You know because they were out messing around. And so I think that maybe conventionally or, you know, in decades past, that's the assumption because of who is going to college, or who was going to college right and who wasn't, and but as that, as the range of people going to college has expanded and more and more are working adults, they're certainly an understanding. And even if we're talking about conventionally aged, traditionally aged college students, many of them are working jobs too or they have lots of responsibilities. So I think professors are coming around to recognizing that, some faster than others, but absolutely it's a real thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, I've done this kind of thing too. I've slept through an alarm and missed a final and I had that same horrible feeling, the pit of my stomach. How could I have done this? And of course it was because I'd been up late the night before studying, and so right, and in that case I had been sitting in the front row all semester and it was a philosophy class and we were talking about, you know, a lot of these abstract ideas and it was really I was engaged in the class, you know. And so in that case the professor let me take the test with a different section. So I just sat in with a different class and it was fine.
Speaker 1:And there was a the time of our Aunt Fanny's funeral and it was I was going to be gone over one of my finals but also, in that case, been very engaged in the professor was like even more willing to make adjustments than I was expecting. Being on the other side of that now, being on the other side of that, now those situations make a little more sense to me than they did at the time, Because most professors are human and willing to work with students when life happens, and I think the problem students, as it were, and you and I are like the kind who are desperate to stay out of the problem student pile right.
Speaker 2:We would be horrified. The funny thing is that morning I think you talked about the time you slept through a exam and or a final, and I remember being like wait, you slept through an exam. Are you serious? Because you are one of the most you plan your life.
Speaker 2:You are you don't shirk responsibility. You are in it for the good grade. I mean, I know this about you You're going to get the most out of it. And in that moment, when you told me that, I just remember being like wait, you slept through a final. Okay, okay, maybe we are all human, yeah, yeah, and truly the funny thing is so I've been in school for six years now and this has never happened before, and the first time it happens, it's just like I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right. Well, and I look back now and I realize like if I had wanted to, there were so many things I could have asked for. I didn't know to ask for, like you know, extensions on things and I mean I'm glad I I don't know if that would have really been better. I mean, I think staying on track, staying on the timeline is better, but I didn't know you could ask for things like an extension. I didn't know that there could be that kind of grace beyond what was stated in the syllabus. No right, I thought that was, that was law.
Speaker 2:And that was when you had previously mentioned our desire to stay out of the bad student file. Whatever that looks like Like I'm not sure exactly what that looks like, but oh, that can take so many different forms. I'm sure. But when you're a student you're just kind of like trying to figure out the system and have that that notion that I don't know. I mean, I kind of thought an 87 was probably not a real good score.
Speaker 1:Or is real good grade. This is what I'm saying, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, right, so it. I think it's so good for me at least, because it helps me realize that maybe my idea of perfection no, I don't even think I would have thought it as of it as perfection, I think it was more my idea of what a good student would do and a good student follows the rules.
Speaker 1:A good student does what's expected of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it's helping me understand that maybe some of my notions are a bit unrealistic. And this semester I feel like it might actually break me, like this is the semester that might actually break me and I am honestly okay. I'm working right now on another essay for finals. I'm okay if I get an 87. I'm okay if I just get a grade at this point. You don't have to juggle perfectly.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I think this is where being a well I was going to say maybe this is where being a non traditional student gives you an advantage, but I'm the other plenty of traditional students who would also be very anxious about hitting all the deadlines.
Speaker 1:So that's maybe not fair, but I will say that when a student who's been doing well semester suddenly has something happen, most professors have a very different reaction to that than the student who has been in and out of class all semester, has had spotty attendance, hasn't turned in homework, has missed a lot of things, hasn't responded to emails when they've reached, when the professors reached out to see how they're doing. And then you know, a few weeks before the end of the semester they come in and they want to know what they can do. So because they really need to see in the class and I've had so many conversations with students who, in my mind, they're they'd be so much better off to withdraw from the class than because the longer they stay in the class, the less of a refund on the tuition they'll get. And, worst case scenario, they end up with an F and tuition Like they don't get a discount on tuition when when they get an F and that F is staying on their transcript.
Speaker 2:It's a permanent point on that, and on that note and on that note am I correct with if you're in a situation where you do have kids you're responsible for, or if you, for whatever reason, have to work extra hours, or if you're dealing with illness. Those are things you should probably clue your professor on sooner than later.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And this is where I was going with that, with the the advantage that a non-traditional student might have and I and again, not, it's not only non-traditional students but if you've been in communication with them throughout the semester and you know, going in and talking with a professor during office hours asking about the assignment in your very present and, and, yes, and you're talking with them about who you are and what you're doing and why you're interested in the class, when they get to know you as a person, it's so different than if you are just a face, a disengaged face, you know, or or a name, and you know they don't. They don't know who you are and and it's much, much less likely that they're willing to be flexible because you haven't built that credibility To your point. Yes, it's well worth the time to get to know professors early on in the semester so that when things do come up, they know who you are and they are going to be much more likely to be willing to work with you.
Speaker 1:And I think sometimes some students are maybe feel nervous about approaching a professor, maybe going to office hours feels a little too much like going to the principal's office, and and so there's this kind of a hesitation, it's like, oh, let's just stay away. They're, you know, like they're scary, but actually 99% of the time the professors will take that engagement as a positive thing. You know, especially if especially if the first time you're contacting them isn't for a favor, or the first time you're engaging in the class isn't isn't asking for a favor, it makes a big difference. I mean, it's human, right, they're human, just like we were the same way with other relationships.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think I'm slowly learning to kind of look at things a bit differently. Because, well, first of all, I think maybe my expectations grade wise might be a little unrealistic and, you know, maybe if I wouldn't have had such unrealistic expectations, I could have took more classes instead of dragging this out. Hmm, that's a thought, because I'm getting to the point where I'm really close to being burned out. I have 21 more credit hours and I'm a little bit afraid about how done I am. Like mentally, I'm just done. So maybe if my expectations for my grades hadn't been what they were, maybe I wouldn't be here.
Speaker 2:But I think to your point. I also saw deadlines as the rule, the law. Don't miss it. And I'm not saying that we should see those lightly, because if everyone in the class didn't take them seriously, it would be really difficult for a professor.
Speaker 2:At the same time, it's okay to ask for help or for an extension instead of putting yourself, like I think you said in the beginning, into a place where you have a migraine or a stomach ulcer. I think sometimes and maybe I don't know if this happens when you come out of a high demand religion, maybe it happens as an adult student who is determined to make it happen. But I think maybe we become more independent than what we need to be and I've actually had a certain mentor in my life who is really frustrated with me because she feels like I'm far too independent. And while that relationship might be complicated, I do think about her frustration sometimes and the role I play in that, because probably it is true that I am a bit too independent and I guess I think about the stress I put myself through to be independent and get that A and maybe it's okay to ask for help and get a B sometimes.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And when you say independent, does that mean self-reliant? It means not expecting others to not expecting anything from someone else. Expecting it's all on you to accomplish your goals, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was actually something I had to kind of work through, even just to ask for scholarships which I was able to talk myself through pretty quickly, because if I didn't get that money someone else was going to and I figured I deserved a chance at it too Absolutely. But I do think there is that sense of I need to figure out how to do it and I can't expect help from someone.
Speaker 1:I agree, and I think it's worth thinking about how gendered this pressure is. When I think of classes I've been in and who the ones are who ask for help. They're the white males. Nothing wrong with being a white male. But I can think of certain individuals who, if a woman made, or would have made, the same request, it would have been denied. In fact, my own situation where I asked for something from a mentor and was told no, that was unrealistic. And then sometime later a male student asked for it and that mentor had the honor to come back to me and say that she would be willing to do the same for me.
Speaker 1:And I think of another situation where it was like something silly, like in class, where there was a deadline coming up and a student says can you send us an email to remind us of that deadline? And I'm going. You have a calendar, I have a calendar, we all have calendars. We can put in our own reminders. This is a graduate level class. There's no reason you can't. How is that for refusing to carry the mental load Right and asking your teacher to do it for you?
Speaker 2:anyway, and probably a female teacher, uh-huh, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who may have been, he may have seen as a mother figure and she very graciously agreed to do it because she was that kind of person. But I couldn't help but notice that I guess I'm saying notice who the people in life are who don't hesitate to ask for favors, don't hesitate to ask for help. Notice who the people are who are trying to do it all and trying to prove that they can do it all without asking for help, and who have this sense of obligation that they somehow owe it to the world to do it all themselves without help. And that is the biggest lie that anyone gets anywhere, accomplishes anything in life without help. Because the people who got the most help, they got it earliest and they were at the head of the line, but they are also the ones who are going to talk the most about bootstrapping.
Speaker 2:Right, bootstrapping with their dad's money, exactly. However, and I hear your point and you're right, but I also think, I agree it's gendered, or it can tend to be gendered, and but I also think, at least for me, it costs a price, and probably my pride early in life, to ask for help, because when you ask for help and it's denied or shamed, or shamed yeah, you're right, you're sure right.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm so glad you made that point because I agree with you. I agree with you. There is a very good reason why so many of us feel the need to do it independently, do it on our own, do it without asking for help, do it without obligating anyone else, without inconveniencing anyone else. Absolutely, oh absolutely.
Speaker 2:We were groomed to do that, we were groomed for this and I think in many of my relationships I am considering the ways that this is become a part of my life and my expectations, and maybe how in some cases, it might not be serving me well anymore and it might not be serving the relationship well. So I think what I'm trying to say is there are times in life where absolutely I mean I truly was at a point in my life where I would rather go hungry than ask for help, and I did, and I think at that point in my life it served me well.
Speaker 1:That was the system, that was your means of survival. Correct In that context, in that system? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So it makes all kinds of sense that now it's hard to change that pattern.
Speaker 2:Correct and maybe what served me well 30 years ago isn't serving me well anymore and I think it's okay to rethink some of those patterns, some of those expectations, some of those knee-jerk reactions I might have and know that if I do ask for help and I get shamed, that's a problem of the other person, of the system, not necessarily my problem.
Speaker 1:And to be honest about what my needs are as well, Right, because wouldn't it be nice to live in a world where we could be honest about our needs without being afraid of being shamed for it? Right, you know that someone can ask for help and their dignity can still be respected. Right, and that needing help wouldn't be seen as a shameful thing. Yeah, but it would be seen as a normal thing, because ultimately, we're all dependent on each other.
Speaker 2:Right and in my experience with my midterms, my professor managed to recognize that and give me grace with dignity, exactly. I didn't feel shame, I didn't feel like you owed him something.
Speaker 1:Now, right, right, you know it's sad that we are at the age we are and learning what that feels like, yeah, yeah, and I know we're not alone in that, and that's too bad, it is.
Speaker 2:And I think what I've been trying to do personally is not just how I'm looking at the world, but also when I do have a lot of opportunity to extend grace or to extend help, particularly to those who I might have power or status.
Speaker 1:It's over.
Speaker 2:Yes, Influence, upper hand, whatever. How can I do that in ways that also extend dignity and reinforce the sense of humanity to them? I think it's something that those who hold power of any kind need to really start considering and being aware of. Agreed, Agreed. I don't know why we wait so long to have these conversations.
Speaker 1:Well, they're risky. They are risky, they're vulnerable, they make us vulnerable. We make ourselves vulnerable when we have them, but I guess we're so freaking, busy, juggling, all the juggles. Right, right, yeah, well, and we have to create a world where it's okay, where it's safe to do that, to express our needs. Yeah, We've got a risky thing to talk about what we need Absolutely and to admit our humanity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, and be willing to go back out and risk asking for help. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, to be free from Well, sometimes I think, if we are willing to go back and ask for help and go into the conversation expecting a different outcome, it makes a difference too. If you show up expecting to be treated with respect. I think sometimes the narrative does change. Yes, unfortunately, that puts the responsibility back on the one without power, but still.
Speaker 1:Right, but we're the ones who are usually thinking about it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Power is not an issue until you don't have it.
Speaker 1:Exactly. We're completely blind to it, right Until we don't have it.
Speaker 2:Right. And here's the thing. I mean we are all juggling a lot and they're good things, they're important things. I mean a cousin's weekend, heck, yeah. I mean midterms. Yeah, we got to get that done. It's all important, it's all good, but it's still things. And while, yeah, one thing in the juggle, my printer, forgetting my order, is off by a few days. It does completely throw those carefully laid plans we had. But am I going to yell at my printer? No, am I going to yell at myself? No, it is what it is.
Speaker 1:We don't have to accept the unrealistic expectations society tries to put on us. Forgetting things, missing deadlines all part of being human.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and maybe if we don't accept those unrealistic expectations, we can kind of slowly change the expectations that we assume to be normal and more and more and this is hard for me I tend to be pretty independent, I tend to be pretty perfectionistic in some ways, but more and more I am good with this notion that it is what it is, particularly when we give it our best, we do what we can. At the end of the day it is what it is and it's okay. And most days, most of us have a resemblance of winning and probably winning and accomplishing what is important and, if nothing else, we survive the day and those days where it seems like it's all falling apart. It is what it is and we ask for and we accept mercy and grace and most of us have given it as well and it's okay, absolutely. Thank you for spending time with us today. The resources and materials we've mentioned are linked in the show notes and on Facebook at Uncovered Life Beyond.
Speaker 1:What are your thoughts about college and recovery from high demand religion? We know you have your own questions and experiences and we want to talk about the topics that matter to you. Share them with us at Uncovered Life Beyond at gmailcom. That's Uncovered Life Beyond at gmailcom.
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Speaker 1:Until next time stay brave, stay bold, stay awkward.
